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Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
This will be a gaming/design rig. I want to be able to expand it in the future, so I'm leaning towards SLI compatible motherboards with multiple PCI-e x16 slots.
Size doesn't really matter much to me right now.
I need a decent monitor, with good color output and black levels. I may upgrade to a Wacom Cintiq later.
Deep-Fried Goodness said, (88 days ago)
It will need a laser that shoots you in the eye if you're an idiot.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
Oh, and I want firewire ports on the front/top of the case. I use a lot of portable storage devices for school, so this is fairly important to me.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
Will your design work benefit from 4 cores as opposed to 2? I know some of that stuff is multithreaded, other, not so much.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
@namrok: I'm not sure, to be honest. I'll have my hands in a little bit of everything. Video, 3D, 2D, animation, audio, etc etc.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
My problem is that I want everything to be top of the line, but that's not quite realistic and would probably be more than I really need. Ideally though, I'll be able to upgrade it as I go to keep up with technology.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
In onboard audio satisfactory? I never bother with an independent sound card anymore personally.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
@namrok: yeah, I don't have room for a surround sound system anyways.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
Message me you email address or something. Put together something on newegg that will get you started. Didn't include a monitor because you sound a bit pickier about that than me, but I believe it has everything else.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
It really isn't. Especially not as an upgrade path where you buy one card now and another later.
But the man wants what he wants.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
Well, lets put it like this.
Unless you are doubling up on video cards when you buy the box, or within a month or two, its not worth it.
Lets say you plan on buying that 2nd card a year from now? While they claim you can get any card in the same series, in all reality, you just want to buy the exact same card of the exact same make. And this can be problematic in some cases. Cards get discontinued or revised quite frequently.
Second, once again, assuming you plan on popping that thing in there a year from now, guess what? You'll already be able to buy a card thats twice as fast, supports more features (DX11 has been announced I believe, or at least is on the way), supports better/higher AA/AF levels, and has hardware which is more streamlined for the games of the day.
Plus, it happens every fucking time. A new game comes out, doesn't work with SLI, or at least not well, and it requires a driver update. So you'll be pulling your hair out over your dual GF HD 260's not running Crysis 3, and the guy on the single GF HD 380 won't have a single issue. And even once you do get it working, that new card which was technically cheaper than your two, will still be faster.
It's just less stress to go with a single, powerful card, unless you need insane power RIGHT NOW, then just buy two of them now.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
Plus, its not nearly as bad as it used to be. For a few years it seemed like every time you bought a new card, it required a new motherboard, which required a new processor, which required new memory. It was a god damned mess.
Now PCIe16 is pretty much the defacto video card slot, and its not looking to change any time soon. So when you want to upgrade, just throw down another $300-400 for a new video card and you're good to go. CPU's have barely changed, same goes for memory. And they really aren't looking to either.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
OH! I knew I forgot something. I didn't add a power supply to that list I sent you. Just grab something beefy from PC Power & Cooling. Its expensive, but totally worth it if you can spare it. I've lost too many parts to power supplies that surged and blew, taking things down with them :( Something in the 500W range should cover you.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
So would you go with a different mobo/video card or stick with the ones on that wishlist?
Also, what about the psu?
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
Yeah, SLI is weaksauce, don't fall for that shit. I also wouldn't go for Vista, as I prefer my games to not drop 20fps from the OS being a whore.
In all honesty I find an AMD/ATI setup to be a lot more effective than an Intel/Nvidia one.
It's been a while since I've done any of this, but for sure you want the following:
-A nice case... good ventilation, make sure it fits the motherboard you're getting, and try to avoid any of those fucked cases that have custom doodads that get in the way.
-A good power supply. I'd go with 600+ W, make sure it's compatible with your mobo and your case, has plenty of power cables [at least one more than the number of cd/hard drives you have], the +12W cable is usually required, so make sure you get one with that.
-Good RAM. 2GB or more, go with the DDR3, but make sure you find the type that matches your motherboard...
-Hard Drive. Hitachi and Seagate make good ones, decide how much space you think you'll use, then add another 50-100 Gigs to that. You'll thank me later.
-Sound card, you won't need anything spectacular. Go with the stock internal one for now, upgrade later if you need to. Creative is the most popular brand.
-Speakers, nothing fancy, you can get some cheapy ones, but a subwoofer makes a big difference... I bought my 2-speaker with sub for like $15.
-Keyboard depends on what you wanna do... if you're playing a lot of games, go with something with extra keys...the Razer Lycosa is supposed to be really good. But if you're not, just get a cheap one.
-Mouse, get something nice, as you'll be using it a lot and need precision for graphics and such. I have a Razer Deathadder that works wonderfully, and my old one was a Logitech G3 that wasn't bad either.
-Drives, go with what you like. If you're burning, get two, but I highly recommended at least one DVD burner...I've probably burned about 2 DVDs in my life, but they're cheap enough it's kind of pointless not to. Lite-On, Samsung and Sony are good brands.
-Monitors are something I've never really looked at, but I wouldn't settle for any less than a 22" LCD widescreen. Make sure it has a good number of resolutions available, and make sure you read reviews and such, as a bad monitor can completely fuck up any graphics work and you might not even notice.
As for the CPU and Video Card...
I would personally get an AM2/AM2+ CPU [dual-core, as quad and higher are rarely used to their potential] of 2.4GhZ or higher... I hear the Phenoms are fantastic, but overpriced. If you went the AM2 route, go for a Radeon video card, either a Radeon x1950 series, or a Radeon HD card. The higher number the better, but I've been through more than a few video cards and even my x1950XT struts its stuff for just about any game at the moment.
If you want to stick to the Intel/Nvidia route, go for a Core 2 Duo and a Geforce 8800 or higher. [Geforce went from 9000s to 200s though, so don't be fooled there]
When I have more time I could probably pull up a sample build for you, but I'm at work and don't really have the freedom to do so. If you need info on specific parts or anything, I'm on aim most of the time.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
DDR2 is stupidly cheap right now. You're better off with 8 GB of DDR2-800 than 2 GB of DDR3-1333.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
This is the list Namrok sent me:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=6575374&WishListTitle=2
The only things I'm not sure on are the mobo/video card and the case.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
On the wishlist I sent you, I put together an NVidia/Intel system. The video card is an HD 260, which is the second best card money can buy, and its $300. The HD 280 is THE best card money can buy, period, and it runs you about $400 plus. On the ATI side, if you go that route, their best card is an 4870, that runs you about $300, and as you'd think, its about as good, or even a little better than, the 260, depending on the game. ATI offers nothing that compares to Nvidias 280.
Personally, I'd steer away from anything AMD on the CPU side. They are cheaper, but you get what you pay for. Intel is generally better in every category. AMD has rested on their laurels for too long, and Intel leapfrogged them pretty good.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
@Centropolis: The thing about getting more than 4 gigs of RAM is that only Vistas 64 bit or various Linux distributions can even use it. Depending on how much ram your video card has, Vista 32 bit caps out at 4 gigs for the system ram and video card ram. So if you have a video card with a gig of ram, you only have 3 gigs of system ram available.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
Also, I'm running vista right now, and my games perform just fine. Rumors of Vista killing games are highly over stated. You lose about 1 or 2 fps, thats about it.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
@Namrok: Vista kills games at 2 GB of RAM, and rapes their corpses at 1 GB. At 4 GB it's not so bad.
Also, what freak isn't running a 64-bit OS on new hardware in this day and age?
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
I kinda like this case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
It's more attractive, and looks to have better ventilation. The only thing I'm not sure about with that case is that the PSU is located on the bottom of the case. I'm not sure how that'll affect installation, but I'm guessing it'll depend on the mobo.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
Right now nobody should have more than 4GB RAM. If you can get faster RAM [DDR3 as opposed to DDR2] you'll benefit more than having just more RAM [8GB opposed to 4], but really after 3GB of DDR2 or 3, the difference is totally negligible. Any extra money left over is much more efficiently spent on a better CPU, or even hard drive, as those have high impacts on processing time [3D rendering for graphics or games] and disk read/write times [loading and saving large files for games, graphic workspaces, music libraries, or the OS itself]
I forgot to mention cooling... get a good CPU fan, and about four 80/120/160mm case fans... it'll keep everything running fast and clean for longer.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
@Corey - I've heard the Antec 900 in particular is a fucking great case.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
More RAM = less swapping and more disk pre-fetch, but you'll need a 64-bit OS to take advantage.
DDR3-1066 is slower than DDR2-800 for real applications, because of increased latency. Don't bother getting DDR3 unless it's at least 1333, which is expensive.
Namrok said, (88 days ago)
@Centropolis: Well, its not so much of an issue now as it used to be, with driver compatibility and all. I'm running 32 bit vista just because I don't feel like reinstalling, although I do have a copy of 64 bit on hand. I guess whenever this machine goes tits up, I'll go ahead and reformat it with 64 bit.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
Oh, and re: RAM - RAM is one of the few things that's very easy to add to later. It's much better/cheaper to buy a really nice CPU now and add more RAM later, than to buy a decent CPU and a shitload of RAM now and have to totally replace your CPU later.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
Also, make sure you get a board with PCIe 2.0. It doubles your GPU/Northbridge memory bandwidth, essentially for free.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
Make sure you get a SATA hard drive with NCQ support, and configure your BIOS to put the SATA controller in AHCI mode prior to installing. Switching from Legacy mode to AHCI on the boot drive is a fantastic pain.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
this is what I'm looking at:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=6576614
The monitor might be changed, and I might go with a different keyboard/mouse setup.
Thoughts?
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
Johnny -
What?
- Centropolis
P.S. You're right about adding RAM later.
Centropotamus said, (88 days ago)
I still think that 32-bit operating systems are obsolete. Any reason you're not getting an OEM version of Vista? The 64-bit OEM version is reasonably priced, unlike the retail version.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
I'm not absolutely positive, but I think that package has both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
XP Pro is laughing at Vista's futility.
Also, you forgot cooling.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
And since you have a couple hundred bucks to spare, minus shipping, it couldn't hurt to throw in some extra cables, screws, screwdrivers...I bought a little toolbox at Fry's for like $10 that's saved my digital life a couple times. And those little thumbscrews for the case are awesome.
I'd have to look at the specs a bit more to verify each piece though... I'm just glancing at the basics at the moment.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
Oh, and I dunno how your internet will be set up, but if you're gonna be on wireless, get a Linksys WRT wireless router and a nice PCI wireless card with an antenna. It makes a huge difference over those pathetic usb stick ones.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
Oh, oh and speakers. I dunno if that monitor has some built in, but trust me man, the sub.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
@johnny: I might get a wireless card. The router is in my room for now but that may not always be the case.
Also, XP is quickly becoming out-dated.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
I don't really have room for speakers right now. I'll stick with monitor speakers for regular stuff and headphones for gaming.
sweet cuppin cakes said, (88 days ago)
outdated my ass.
but re: the wireless - you actually don't even need a wireless card... get a wireless modem from your internet company, and the Linksys WRT. You can put custom firmware [DD-WRT] on it, so that the Linksys router can access the wireless modem from anywhere in the house [as if IT were the wireless card], and you just need an ethernet cable from the Linksys to the computer. That's how I just set mine up, and it works extremely well for my computer and Xbox, even with the modem on the other side of the house.
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
This monitor looks nice. It even has a sub!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236025
Corey Hart said, (88 days ago)
@johnny: I already have a wireless router. It's in my room.
XP doesn't completely support new hardware!
Corey Hart said, (87 days ago)
Ok, so this is what I think I'm going with:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=6576614
(same link as before, fyi)
sweet cuppin cakes said, (87 days ago)
um... you took out the keyboard/mouse and replaced it with just the mouse?
sweet cuppin cakes said, (87 days ago)
I see.
I don't know how I feel about the G9 though. I've never tried it myself, but it seems like a hit or miss design.
Corey Hart said, (87 days ago)
@centro: What can you tell me about the "For System Builders" license on the OEM versions of Vista?
I understand that I'd have to provide my own tech support, but how does it work for rebuilding the machine and all that jazz?
sweet cuppin cakes said, (87 days ago)
Just get the OEM. It's cheaper and you won't have problems with it.
Corey Hart said, (87 days ago)
http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdf
It looks like it's technically in violation of the license agreement for me to get the OEM since I wouldn't be "distributing" the "customer system".
Linda Busser said, (87 days ago)
just use windows xp. you can download it from any torrent site, and it doesnt need activation (for professional).
Corey Hart said, (87 days ago)
@Linda: from what I've gathered, XP 64Bit isn't very well supported.
The last thing I want to deal with is OS issues.
Centropotamus said, (86 days ago)
@gambit: 64-bit can take full advantage of your hardware, and also lets applications use various acceleration tricks that aren't available with a 32-bit OS.
Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft's first effort at a 64-bit consumer OS had... issues... At least with Vista, it was designed for both 32-bit and 64-bit from the beginning, so Vista 64 shouldn't have any worse hardware support issues than Vista 32.
Any parts you are going to be re-using?