Unpacking the male privilege

Thanks, I'll reword the harassment and and nudidity lines.

I actually thought about including peeing standing up.

But, honestly, what privileges do you think men enjoy unknowingly. Or have you ever felt held back because you were a woman? What were the circumstances, specifically?

Dude. The Hulk. Spiderman. Batman. Bruce Willis. Bruce Lee. Keanu Reeves. Steve McQueen.

Need one or two more

The Hulk - ALL OF THE ABOVE character flaws
Spiderman - Alright, he's a good example
Batman - which incarnation of batman are we talking? Cause he's run the gamut from boyscout to just downright fucking evil.
Bruce Willis - In Die Hard, he's borderline retarded, an alcoholic, a horrible father, and recklessly destructive. What a hero.
Keanu Reeves - In The Matrix? Ok, not a bad call.

Fact of the matter is most male lead characters are anti-heroes, or severely horribly flawed in ways such that NO ONE would look towards them as a positive role model.

@caffeinated: what about kiddo, sport, tiger, etc? those are pretty diminutive.

see, coz down here below the Mason-Dixon line, women can get called sweetie no matter how old they are. I've got a friend who works at a cafe and she gets angry when people call her sweetie. She's from Montana and didn't grow up around it.

@namrok

Captain Picard, Captain Kirk, any Tom Cruise hero, most Will Smith characters, Tommy Lee Jones,

@corey: when was the last time someone called you sport or kiddo? I'd say they're directed at boys more than men.

How often have women called you "old chap"?

- My boss is more likely to be my gender the higher up I go
- Assertive behavior is not considered a negative trait (i.e. bitchy)
- Promiscuous behavior is not considered a negative trait (i.e. slutty)

Tommy Lee Jones isn't a hero, he's always an authority figure.

Storm, Jean, Rogue, that other chick from X-Men.

Bionic Woman. Sarah Conner.

Lots of women

- Members of the other gender do not use diminutive nicknames when addressing me.

@daisy: I think males like the male superheroes coz it makes them feel strong, and heroic like them. Isn't that the point of being an American man?

@andrew: all very good.

@andrew: I think the response to assertive behaviour depends on the context and the tone of the conversation. It's all in the way the person presents their self.

I wish more women would chip in on this.

Squirt's like for... 5-10 year olds I guess

You know, like a father saying to his son 'hey squirt' or 'hey champ'

That kinda shit.

Dude OH AND BRO are for like teens/20s

Constantine, now he was a fucking hero.

@namrok: When has being a male been disadvantageous?

@corey: again, high 5

@iamcaffeinated: Zero reproductive rights. We can wrap it up, or get snipped. After that we're at the mercy of what the other party decides, who has a million more options than us. Pills, patches, implants, morning after pills, abortions. They can put the child up for adoption without a fathers consent. Or they can put the screws to you for 18-21 years, depending on the state and/or college.

Family courts basically bend men over too. The default assumption is that children are the property of the mother. A perfectly fit father gets every other weekend if he's lucky.

I guess bottom line is being a man is all roses until you have kids or get married.

Well I guess more accurately until you get a divorce.

And frankly, that being such a major part of most peoples lives, and such an emotionally important issue, I think it weighs pretty heavily over a bunch of petty "advantages" like "Oh, most heroes are male" or "nobody calls me sugar tits".

I wish more people would call me sugar tits...

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to get into a pissing match about how men have it SOOOO much harder than women or something like that.

I'm just pointing out, being a man isn't some fucking bed of roses, you know?

@namrok: so fucking true. When my parents split up, me & my sister ended up with our mother who is a total druggie, has a shit job, and the reason they split up was because she was allways out partying and shit EVEN WHILE PREGNANT, and she cheated on my dad heaps. Yet SHE got custody. HER PARENTS had to write an affidavid for my father, saying that HE was the better parent.

@toy: where do you live?

Women at the office especially love to take this mothering tone with me (which I think is really, really condescending.) Not so bad at the job I've been at the last couple of months but at TiVo I got it CONSTANTLY.

I don't know if it's a bay area thing or a tech market thing or what, but I've been dealing with it since I started working in tech at age 18 to varying degrees.

@Alexis: Rad! Thanks.

We are not required to have an on-going relationship with a genital medical specialist virtually our entire adult lives.
We don't generally require help with most physical tasks.
We can fight with our friends, even physically, and retain them as friends.
We are allowed to buy cars with horsepower.
We don't get ripped off by every mechanic, car dealer, or salesman that comes across our path.
Our clothing is substantially less expensive, as are our personal care products, of which there are far far fewer.
We get more attractive with age.
We are far more likely to be awarded a Medal of Honor.

We never get asked by our male friends about whether what they're wearing is cute enough or sexy enough.

@osteo: We have the Spike channel.

@osteo: You did make me think of this one, seriously: If I choose to join the military, I can potentially serve in any capacity I choose.

@Fix: Spike is the only channel on cable I really need.

@iamc: because some people reaaaalllly don't care or would like to see some boobies at a football game. You're right on the legal standpoint, but if you're talking about the unconscious mind, i think some might appreciate seeing the naken female form.

better?

@iamc: maybe you shouldn't use that example then.

@toy: I think that both men and women are susceptible to being accused of "lifestyle choices" for wearing clothes mainly worn by the other gender. Both men and women wear jeans, sure. But there are decidedly different sorts of jeans for the two.

I read a study once where it tracked classrooms K-12 that showed a clear gender bias toward males. Since girls are taught from a young age to be quiet and good, they are (normally) the best studetns in class. However, since young boys are given more space to be loud and active, they continue this trend all throughout school. Thus, this gives them more one-on-one attention from the teacher. Though this attention is most often negative, when a boy is good in class, he will get publically rewarded by either praises or prizes. However, when a girl is constantly good, she is not recognized for the same behavior and has to work harder to ge the same amount of attention.

Also, it was studied that when a boy calls out of turn in class his answer will be accepted more than a girl's. If a girl calls out of turn, she will be told to raise her hand and her answer not considered.

I do a lot of volunteering with ESL students at a elementary school nearby and I saw this at work in the classrooms. It actually happens, and it's just another unfair advantage males have in education, even though more bachelors degrees were given to women last year than men.

other than, like, Betsy Ross or Martha Washington.

I'm saying the entire education system is out of whack. They recognize that females are usually better students than male, so much so that there are more females graduating with bachelors. My point was that the lower, required levels of education need to recognize and reward female students more. Yes, they have overcome bias and less one-on-one teacher time and have gone on to higher degrees. But that shouldn't be a reason to keep ignoring successful female students in k-12. My point was fighting for equality in the classroom. How is that a bad thing.

However, I would also argue that there is a spike in women receiving bachelors degrees because of historic battles from k-12 in career counselors turning young girls away from college. Now that there is a absolute need in the market, many non-traditional aged women are going back to school to get the bachelor degree they wanted in the first place.

Social bias is not the same as institutional bias?

@Namrok: I think Daisy has numbers that clearly show a bias against women in the K-12 system. While you may call these "petty advantages," they are at least empirically proven.

There are a host of factors that affect academic success and graduation rates. Ascribing those rates solely to K-12 treatment is fallacious, I'm afraid. Basically, we have data showing that boys are treated better than girls in K-12. We also have data showing that girls are more likely to receive undergraduate degrees. We have NO data linking these two phenomena.

You need a doctor after 35 or 40 to check your prostate once a year since we're guaranteed to get prostate cancer if you live long enough.

If.

I'm not so big on listing privileges accorded to any one group, but I imagine iamcaffeinated is basing this on the model of Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack about white privilege.

Which I suggest you at least peruse and try to keep your wrath in check.

No one is accusing you of anything. It is an attempt to suss out hidden or unacknowledged biases.

So let's talk about a big one.

Political power and women.

They don't have it for the most part in the US.

@iamcaffeinated: Thats partially my point. What do you consider more important to a persons life? Their likelihood to acquire a degree, or how they are treated in elementary?

Personally I'd go with the degree, and consider k-12 rather petty. A degree has more to do with your long term success in life than whether a teacher gave you a sticker in 4th grade because you were a boy and managed to stay seated for an entire day.

As a woman, I can....

- Kiss friends of the same gender on the cheek without others making grand assumptions about my sexual preference. (Although in some cultures, such as Italian/French, I would say this is more widely accepted as normal male behavior).

- Work in administrative/supporting roles (receptionist, nurse, nanny, etc) without others thinking it's just a temporary means of employment or assuming me to have some sort of "higher" career goals.

- Wear lingerie to a night club and pass it off as fashion. (If guys showed up to clubs in their whitey-tighties & a tank top, I'm almost positive they would get some strange looks.)

Screw the whole "peeing standing up" thing. What irks me is that if a man feels a PRESSING NEED to pee while he's out for a hike, out for a drive, out camping, or whatever... it's considered far more acceptable for a man to whip it up and take a leak right there against a tree, side of the road, side of a building, whatever. Usually, the worst he'll get is a wrinkled nose and q
uickly averted eyes. If a woman did that as result of the same PRESSING NEED, she'd be likely to locked up in a drunk tank. (Mind you, this is not to say I have any frequent desire to pee outdoors; I'm simply saying it's a craptacular double standard on the performance of a basic bodily function that EVERYBODY experiences.)

It also peeves me every time I hear the disparaging comments about "women drivers" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). This in spite of the fact that MEN usually have the higher insurance rates... *for a reason*.

Guys, have you ever had a male coworker read something over your shoulder... like at your desk or something.. and wonder if he is looking down your shirt? Probably not. This is something I just experienced and it feels awful. A) Because I try really hard to disguise my large breasts in the work environment. B) Because I feel terrible for thinking my boss is creepy enough to try and get a sneak peek.

Actually here is one thing that is of particular peril to me.

Restraining orders just get rubber stamped. They do. There is no due process or anything.

Now I couldn't care less. I'd never do anything to deserve one, and if one came down, whatever, I just avoid the bitch.

But here is the kicker. It could seriously fuck with my career. You will get turned down at jobs because of it. Plus it could cause problems getting a security clearance. And around here, even the janitors need security clearances. I wish I were joking.

Severe no?

Maybe I am just terrible at being a guy. (Also, I drive a Ford Focus.)

@reamworks: exactly! I get harassed all the time!

and it gets me so hot!

My apologies. I skimmed most of this conversation.